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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2003 1:51 pm 
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At the end of the book it is suggested that Yahweh (Nannar/Sin) and Alá could be the same person, as this god turned to move out of the region, after wars and ocuppations for other kings. If this is true it could be a major irony for muslins than his only god be the same than than Jew's one. If someone could clarify this issue, I'll appreciate.
On another topic, I'm wondering about the Cristian idol, Jesus, and who could be his father. Sounds like this 1/3 god (if Maria was really 100% human) made an alliance with his father, and atend to all the things that did really happened knowing it all, before being taken to heavens with his father. That's another interesting issue and leads to many discussions.
Thank you all.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:25 am 
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It is most ironic, and perhaps sad, that different belief systems should arise from the same Founding Father. If people kill in the name of the same god, are they not siblings killing siblings?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:29 am 
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Consider this when considering the gods of different religions:
In the Bible, God is referrenced by many names, depending on the character of the God at that time.
i.e. Jehovah Rafiki, Elohim, Yahweh, Jehovah Nissi, etc...

The God that Adam walked in the "Garden" with may not be the same God that comissioned Noah, and that God may not be the same God that Comissioned Abram/Abraham, and that God may not be the same God
that Dealt with Muhammad. Keep in mind that, during those times, the people dealt with living corporal creatures that were considered/worshipped as gods. This gives reason to the urgency and harshness each religous founder dedicated to his beliefs. The question to answer would be which Anunnaki served as GOD to what person?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:11 pm 
I posted these in another forum I'd like to share with you.

I picked this up in my net perusing:

Elohim. God, gods, judges, angels. This word, which is generally viewed as the plural of eloah, is found far more frequently in Scripture than either el or eloah for the true God. The plural ending is usually described as a plural of majesty and not intended as a true plural when used of God. This is seen in the fact that the noun elohim is consistently used with a singular verb forms and with adjectives and pronouns in the singular.
Albright has suggested that the use of this majestic plural comes from the tendency in the ancient near east toward a universalism:… a better reason can be seen in Scripture itself where, in the very first chapter of Gen, the necessity of a term conveying both the untiy of the one God and yet allowing for a plurality of persons is found (Gen. 1:2, 26). This is further borne out by the fact that the form elohim occurs only in Hebrew and no other Semitic language, not even in Biblical Aramaic…
The term occurs in the general sense of deity some 2570 times in Scripture. Yet … it is difficult to detect any discrepancy in use between the forms el, eloah, and elohim in Scripture.
When indicating the true God, elohim functions as the subject of all divine activity revealed to man and as the object of all true reverence and fear from men. Often, elohim is accompanied by the personal name of God, Yahweh.
Regarding the meaning and use of Eloah, they write:
The exact relationship between this name for God in Scripture and el or elohim and far from settled. It occurs in some of the oldest Old Testament poetry (Deut. 32:15, 17) and very frequently (forty-one times) in the debates between Job (and ancient believer) and his friends. It appears therefore to be an ancient term for God which was later dropped for the most part until the time of the exile and after, when there was great concern for a return to the more ancient foundations. It is not frequently used outside Job. It occurs once in Isa, once in Prov, twice in Hab, four times in Ps, and then in the postexilic books: II Chr., Neh, and Dan a total of five times.
… This term for God was usually clearly used for Israel’s God, the true God.… The Hebrew word is quite similar to the Aramaic elah, the usual name for God in Biblical Aramaic…

http://www.bible.org/qa.asp?topic_id=96&qa_id=285

My dear sleuthers, I have a question or two:

Who can match up which god with which hero?

"Adam" was probably "fathered" by Enki.

Moses may have been contacted by several, including Jahweh. Who likes burning bushes? The serpent thingy smacks of Enki. Egypt was under the sway of the Enki clan, if I remember correctly, and the Enlil clan wanted to make sure that the Great Pyramid was under their control. So, could it have been Enlil who initially called Moses?

The whole Israelite / Hebrew invasion of Palestine could have been a military maneuver to seize the "Holy Land" (the land of the Shem) for the Enki clan. So, could Enki have been guiding Joshua?

Abram was initially contacted by either Ninurta or Sin and sent to the Negrav.

Jahweh steps into the picture about this time as a force to off-set Marduk's victory.

Hmmm.

I prefer not to provide the source for the following, as there was a lot of disturbing information within the site. But, I found the following very interesting:

Marduk:

in Mesopotamian religion, the chief god of the city of Babylon and the national god of Babylonia; as such he was eventually called simply Bel, or Lord. Originally he seems to have been a god of thunderstorms. A poem, known as Enuma elish and dating from the reign of Nebuchadrezzar I (1124-03 BC), relates Marduk's rise to such preeminence that he was the god of 50 names, each one that of a deity or of a divine attribute. After conquering the monster of primeval chaos, Tiamat, he became Lord of the Gods of Heaven and Earth. All nature, including man, owed its existence to him; the destiny of kingdoms and subjects was in his hands.

Marduk's chief temples at Babylon were the Esagila and the Etemenanki, a ziggurat with a shrine of Marduk on the top. In the Esagila the poem Enuma elish was recited every year at the New Year festival. The goddess named most often as the consort of Marduk was Zarpanitu.

Marduk's star was Jupiter, and his sacred animals were horses, dogs, and especially the so-called dragon with forked tongue, representations of which adorn his city's walls. On the oldest monuments Marduk is represented holding a triangular spade or hoe, interpreted as an emblem of fertility and vegetation. He is also pictured walking or in his war chariot. Typically, his tunic is adorned with stars; in his hand is a sceptre, and he carries a bow, spear, net, or thunderbolt. Kings of Assyria and Persia also honoured Marduk and Zarpanitu in inscriptions and rebuilt many of their temples.

Marduk was later known as Bel, a name derived from the Semitic word baal, or "lord. Bel" had all the attributes of Marduk, and his status and cult were much the same. Bel, however, gradually came to be thought of as the god of order and destiny. In Greek writings references to Bel indicate this Babylonian deity and not the Syrian god of Palmyra of the same name.


Leviathan:

Hebrew Livyatan, in Jewish mythology, a primordial sea serpent. Its source is in prebiblical Mesopotamian myth, especially that of the sea monster in the Ugaritic myth of Baal. In the Old Testament, Leviathan appears in Psalms 74:14 as a multiheaded sea serpent that is killed by God and given as food to the Hebrews in the wilderness. In Isaiah 27:1, Leviathan is a serpent and a symbol of Israel's enemies, who will be slain by God. In Job 41, it is a sea monster and a symbol of God's power of creation.

Yamm:

also spelled Yam, ancient West Semitic deity who ruled the oceans, rivers, lakes, and underground springs. He also played an important role in the Baal myths recorded on tablets uncovered at Ugarit, which say that at the beginning of time Yamm was awarded the divine kingship by El, the chief god of the pantheon. One day, Yamm's messengers requested that the gods surrender Baal to be a bond servant to Yamm. El finally agreed, but Baal refused to go and instead engaged Yamm in battle. After a furious fight, in which the craftsman Kothar supplied Baal with two special weapons, Yamm was finally slain and the kingship given to Baal. According to some scholars, Yamm was the same deity as Lotan (Hebrew: Leviathan), who was represented as a hydralike dragon or serpent.

Baal:

god worshiped in many ancient Middle Eastern communities, especially among the Canaanites, who apparently considered him a fertility deity and one of the most important gods in the pantheon. As a Semitic common noun baal (Hebrew baÅal) meant “owner” or “lord,” although it could be used more generally; for example, a baal of wings was a winged creature, and, in the plural, baalim of arrows indicated archers. Yet such fluidity in the use of the term baal did not prevent it from being attached to a god of distinct character. As such, Baal designated the universal god of fertility, and in that capacity his title was Prince, Lord of the Earth. He was also called the Lord of Rain and Dew, the two forms of moisture that were indispensable for fertile soil in Canaan. In Ugaritic and Old Testament Hebrew, Baal's epithet as the storm god was He Who Rides on the Clouds. In Phoenician he was called Baal Shamen, Lord of the Heavens.

Knowledge of Baal's personality and functions derives chiefly from a number of tablets uncovered from 1929 onward at Ugarit (modern Ras Shamra), in northern Syria, and dating to the middle of the 2nd millennium BC. The tablets, although closely attached to the worship of Baal at his local temple, probably represent Canaanite belief generally. Fertility was envisaged in terms of seven-year cycles. In the mythology of Canaan, Baal, the god of life and fertility, locked in mortal combat with Mot, the god of death and sterility. If Baal triumphed, a seven-year cycle of fertility would ensue; but, if he were vanquished by Mot, seven years of drought and famine would ensue.

Ugaritic texts tell of other fertility aspects of Baal, such as his relations with Anath, his consort and sister, and also his siring a divine bull calf from a heifer. All this was part of his fertility role, which, when fulfilled, meant an abundance of crops and fertility for animals and mankind.

But Baal was not exclusively a fertility god. He was also king of the gods, and, to achieve that position, he was portrayed as seizing the divine kingship from Yamm, the sea god.

The myths also tell of Baal's struggle to obtain a palace comparable in grandeur to those of other gods. Baal persuaded Asherah to intercede with her husband El, the head of the pantheon, to authorize the construction of a palace. The god of arts and crafts, Kothar, then proceeded to build for Baal the most beautiful of palaces which spread over an area of 10,000 acres. The myth may refer in part to the construction of Baal's own temple in the city of Ugarit. Near Baal's temple was that of Dagon, given in the tablets as Baal's father.

In the formative stages of Israel's history, the presence of Baal names did not necessarily mean apostasy or even syncretism. The judge Gideon was also named Jerubbaal (Judges 6:32), and King Saul had a son named Ishbaal (I Chronicles 8:33). For those early Hebrews, “Baal” designated the Lord of Israel, just as “Baal” farther north designated the Lord of Lebanon or of Ugarit. What made the very name Baal anathema to the Israelites was the program of Jezebel, in the 9th century BC, to introduce into Israel her Phoenician cult of Baal in opposition to the official worship of Yahweh (I Kings 18). By the time of the prophet Hosea (mid-8th century BC) the antagonism to Baalism was so strong that the use of the term Baal was often replaced by the contemptuous boshet (“shame”); in compound proper names, for example, Ishbosheth replaced the earlier Ishbaal.

Dagon:

also spelled Dagan, West Semitic god of crop fertility, worshiped extensively throughout the ancient Middle East. Dagan was the Hebrew and Ugaritic common noun for “grain,” and the god Dagan was the legendary inventor of the plow. His cult is attested as early as about 2500 BC, and, according to texts found at Ras Shamra (ancient Ugarit), he was the father of the god Baal. Dagan had an important temple at Ras Shamra, and in Palestine, where he was particularly known as a god of the Philistines, he had several sanctuaries, including those at Beth-dagon in Asher (Joshua 19:27), Gaza (Judges 16:23), and Ashdod(1 Samuel 5:2–7). At Ras Shamra, Dagan was apparently second in importance only to El, the supreme god, although his functions as a god of vegetation seem to have been transferred to Baal by about 1500 BC.

Ogony (account of the origin of the gods)

Though the “Eridu Genesis” may have come close to treating existence as a whole, a true cosmogonic and cosmological myth that deals centrally with the origins, structuring, and functional principles of the cosmos does not actually appear until Old Babylonian times, when Mesopotamian culture was entering a period of doubt about the moral character of world government and even of divine power itself. Yet, the statement is a positive one, almost to the point of defiance. Enuma elish tells of a beginning when all was a watery chaos and only the sea, Tiamat, and the sweet waters underground, Apsu, mingled their waters together. Mummu, the personified original watery form, served as Apsu's page. In their midst the gods were born. The first pair, Lahmu and Lahamu, represented the powers in silt; the next, Anshar and Kishar, those in the horizon. They engendered the god of heaven, Anu, and he in turn the god of the flowing sweet waters, Ea.

This tradition is known in a more complete form from an ancient list of gods called An: Anum. There, after a different beginning, Lahmu and Lahamu give rise to Duri and Dari, “the time-cycle”; and these in turn give rise to Enshar and Ninshar, Lord and Lady Circle. Enshar and Ninshar engender the concrete circle of the horizon, in the persons of Anshar and Kishar, probably conceived as silt deposited along the edge of the universe. Next was the horizon of the greater heaven and earth, and then—omitting an intrusive line—heaven and earth, probably conceived as two juxtaposed flat disks formed from silt deposited inward from the horizons.

Enuma elish truncates these materials and violates their inner logic considerably. Though they are clearly cosmogonic and assume that the cosmic elements and the powers informing them come into being together, Enuma elish seeks to utilize them for apure the ogony. The creation of the actual cosmos is dealt with much later. Also, the introduction of Mummu, the personified “original form,” which in the circumstances can only be that of water, may have led to the omission of Ki, Earth, who—as non watery—did not fit in.

The gods, who in Enuma elish come into being within Apsu and Tiamat, are viewed as dynamic creatures, who contrast strikingly with the older generation. Apsu and Tiamat stand for inertia and rest. This contrast leads to a series of conflicts in which first Apsu is killed by Ea; then Tiamat, who was roused later to attack the gods, is killed by Ea's son Marduk. It is Marduk, the hero of the story, who creates the extant universe out of the body of Tiamat. He cuts her, like a dried fish, in two, making one-half of her into heaven—appointing there Sun, Moon, and stars to execute their prescribed motions—and the other half into the Earth. He pierces her eyes to let the Tigris and Euphrates flow forth, and then, heaping mountains on her body in the east, he makes the various tributaries of the Tigris flow out from her breasts. The remainder of the story deals with Marduk's organization of the cosmos, his creation of man, and his assigning to the gods their various cosmic offices and tasks. The cosmos is viewed as structured as, and functioning as, a benevolent absolute monarchy.


  
 
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:38 pm 
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There appears to be a lot of cross-worship of the deities among mankind. It seems difficult to pinpoint who represented what group people. Also, if different gods spoke/dealt with different people where did the concept of "One GOD" originate? It seems to have happened before Marduk altered history (w/Abram/Abraham). So, if Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Gideon, etc... were dealing with different gods/deities, who was considered the "One GOD"? Anu is the likely candidate but, he also fits the roles of Uranus/Kronos by being ovethrown by his descendant/grandson. The conundrum deepens.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:32 am 
Mouton, I agree.

In fact, if one delves into the religions of the Egyptians and Hindus, there is less a pantheon and an acceptance that there is one God, just many attributes of that one God.


  
 
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:03 pm 

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Apologies, but I didn't know where else to post this. The number/word "forty" appears 128 times in the OT. Ever wonder why? Anu's rank was 60, Enki and Enlil = 50, their first sons = 40. Was Yahweh = 40 = Marduk or???


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:28 pm 
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Anthem1, at the end of Divine Encounters Sitchin hints that Yahweh is the Creator of all or the one true god so to speak, I wonder why he changed his mind, perhaps cause he was said to have cop out for sake of his religious background?

Eyajwhynsos


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:32 pm 
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From sources i am not able to recall at the moment (one being this forum), even the anunnaki taught of one GOD. A grand architect of the universe, so to speak. i believe it to be something similar to what is taught in the Egyptian Mystery Systems, if not the same thing, seeing that Sitchin mentions the Egyptian god Thoth working with Sumerian gods in temple building. The question then becomes which Anunnaki took credit for being the Creator of All? Some readings lead to Marduk, some to Anu. Also, what could be their relation to the returning gods of the Mayans in 2012? Finally, being that they were of the same origin, could their teachings be similar with the difference being in who takes credit? Thereby having humanity fight for different parts of the same belief system. More conundrums.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:49 am 
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Mr. P.;
What then could be the possible origins of the Egyptian (and many other cultures) primordial origin theories, and what relation could the Anunnaki have to these theories considering their influence over man kinds beliefs? i've read many stories of primordial soups and unversal eggs and original trinities and i must believe that the Anunnaki had influence in these beliefs if i am to believe that they were as relevant to our past as is written.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:14 am 
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To Mouton Bazile

I had written a short work on astronomy and basically what it came down to was that I believe that the universe is sealed about yet the seal is getting larger, as well so are the celestial bodies. It is not as wierd as it seems but if you are interested I can talk a bit more detailed about it here on this board. It in my opinion answered the Egyptian primordial begining and doesn't actually explain the origin of life, but more so how it spread about from one place in the universe to another. It doesn't include but hints at how evolution might tie into this. An interesting read at least I believe so, but it is best to be explain a bit at a time because of the way in which I wrote it. If you are interested let me know. Oh it also ties in how nibiru could sustain life, and if sitchin is correct about his hypothesis of the anunnaki using gold to shield their planet it helps to better understand how that is possible. A few other things that I can't quite think of, but again let me know.

Eyajwhynsos


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:02 am 
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Eya;
i can grasp the concept of a continually growing and expanding universe, but what is it growing and expanding in? i can also grasp the idea of life spreading to some places and not others. {Balance}
Mr. P.;
When i say primordial soup i speak of the beginning of all up to the origin of life on earth. The majority of beliefs that i have encountered have too many similarities to be coincidence. i believe that they are based on provable truth or they are the machinations of those (Naki or other) that have interacted with man kind in the past. i am still curious as to what interaction the Anunnaki could have had with the other aliens that have visited our planet. Could there be some sort of interstellar agreement similar to rules of "First Contact" on Star Trek? An agrrement that would have been reached after the Anunnaki made man and brought us to a point that we could continue on our own and, possibly be the reason for the end of the wars of the gods, and would give the Anunnaki time to regroup life on their home planet. This is all speculation based on the factual knowledge that we have/are been/being visited by life from other planets and we have yet to be contacted as a planet of people, or attacked. Even if the Anunnaki made man, to what extent did they have influence over us with so much possible competition for earth? Are we overating the Naki and underestimating a potentially more dangerous alien return? Something similar to vwhat the Mayans predict.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:29 pm 
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PP: the 'naki teaching us different genesis stories to keep us seperate...? sounds very tower of babelish...and maybe truish

MB: i think there is a federation of sorts "out there". i think we have been and are visited by a variety of beings (or maybe Enki has a few different models of android for different purposes?) from that federation (and maybe from outside that body politic, too) [hard evidence, PP? nah. just a bunch of "might be"s. here's a link i haven't visited because my work filters crud http://www.maar.us/alien_species.html i don't know. may be useful, may be crud] ok...i've been at this and reviewing for finals for three hours now. ineed afaster connection at home! i don't even remember what i wanted to say!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:34 am 
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OH RIGHT, been waiting to put this alternative theory out there so I will first answer the questions asked then as MrPP said "spoon feed" ya.

Mouton Bazile, very interesting name ask:
but what is it growing and expanding in?

Good question, in my theory I speculate that the entire known universe is enveloped within a seal, made of very dense matter but a seal, similar to an egg. Infact and quite coincidentally I found that it is similar to the belief of hinduism, not what I was going for, but if it pans out to be true I won't be the only one who was on to something.

How the universe came into being is not covered in my paper but I do have an answer, my paper deal primarily with the process of how the universe works. Perhaps you MrPP can start a topic in the General Discussion area about how the universe came into existence starting with your own theory? I'll critique it and comment as usual and add my own thoughts, hmm sound good?

How I came up with this seal was when I came to realize what gravity was some seven years ago but struggled to put it into words, I am extremely visual but when it came to verbal discourse I found I was a bit immature to say the least. I thus went to a mainstream astronomy forum, and got my back side handed to me for quite some time until I became very good at understanding what I was visualizing.

Ok, so I don't go off topic I will place this in the General discussion under "what is Gravity"

Eyajwhynsos

(Edited by Eyajwhynsos at 3:26 am on Dec. 13, 2006)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:14 am 
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Mr. P.;
i consider the "Primordial Soup" as space itself. The very nothingness that everything exists in is the very primordial goo that it sprang from. The goo being the matter that solidified into planets and suns and comets etc.., Space being what's left of the goo and, gravity being the force that holds it all together.


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