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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:28 am 
I thought I'd throw in my 2 bits just to continue the entire gang's input here.

But as those of you know who read my thread in a religious forum 'elsewhere', I believe that this "return" was in or near the 1st century A.D. and the "kingdom" was not necessarily one of profound differnce but of overwhelming change, and that is the time in which we all live now.. the time of Christianity.


  
 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:47 am 
Tripp, I remember during my college days especially of people making similar statements about the "return." Of course, they were speaking in a rather metaphysical sense in which time flowed "forward" from Adam to Christ and "backward" from the End Times to Christ.

In this context, the End of the World had occurred at the culmination of Christ's death and subsequent resurrection. There was even words regarding that at the moment of death, our souls are transported back to the crucifixion and there to be raised into Paradise upon Christ's ressurection.

I remember it as a time of heady discussion. Age and time have sort of all but erased it from memory until you jogged an ancient neuron.

So, all that written, I'm not discounting your premise, but then I'm not looking for a "return" as promised or described in the NT during my lifetime either.

ArniK, of course you are well aware of all the "heresies" that arose during the first 300-500 years of the "church." Most of these heresies were violently stamped out, including the so-called "King of Jerusalem" in an area now included in Germany, by the Holy Roman Church.

For a believer, it should be a spiritual exerience that affirms that Christ is the Way, the Life, and the Truth. Arthur C. Clarke once wrote a book or short story in which these aliens proved through some kind of movie demonstration actual pictures of man's history to show that religion was all bunk. Mankind had no soul, and the remaining population then lived out their lives in bliss knowing that they weren't much different from animals and would die without any hope of an afterlife. Then the aliens took over the world and populated it with an improved species of humanoids.

Tripp is doing a good job laying a foundation connecting the gods with religion all the way to Christ and beyond.

Hypothetically, what if the Christ is an anathma to the continuing agenda of the gods? What if he and the religion that rose up from his teachings is something new, a challenge to the gods?

When we look at revelations per se, we have all kinds of different vehicles used to reveal God's will or the gods' will: voices, burning bushes, humanoid visitors, etc. One of the problems I have with these revelations (and Christ is really no different) is that these revelations are cryptic.

It's like your boss telling you to get a job done but doesn't give you all the tools or blueprints or even a guideline to ensure quality control.

From the gitgo, it seems that mankind is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. The only "promise" seems to be that God or the gods will "remember" mankind. You know: kind of set up a cerebral monument of people who have passed along. The NT changed this promise to one of eternal bliss or eternal torment: "So you better be good; you better be nice, 'cause God is coming to town."


  
 
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:16 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:52 am
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Quote:
Quote: from Tripp on 12:28 am on Aug. 17, 2005
I thought I'd throw in my 2 bits just to continue the entire gang's input here.

But as those of you know who read my thread in a religious forum 'elsewhere', I believe that this "return" was in or near the 1st century A.D. and the "kingdom" was not necessarily one of profound differnce but of overwhelming change, and that is the time in which we all live now.. the time of Christianity.




i remember your post Tripp, allthough i still have a reasonable doubt pointing the "prophetic revelations" of the NT and Christ's messages to much older imagery and esoteric Sumerian/Babylonian knowlledge.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:20 pm 

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Quote:
Quote: from outcast on 1:16 am on Aug. 18, 2005
Quote:
Quote: from Tripp on 12:28 am on Aug. 17, 2005
I thought I'd throw in my 2 bits just to continue the entire gang's input here.

But as those of you know who read my thread in a religious forum 'elsewhere', I believe that this "return" was in or near the 1st century A.D. and the "kingdom" was not necessarily one of profound differnce but of overwhelming change, and that is the time in which we all live now.. the time of Christianity.




i remember your post Tripp, allthough i still have a reasonable doubt pointing the "prophetic revelations" of the NT and Christ's messages to much older imagery and esoteric Sumerian/Babylonian knowlledge.


Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but the previous thread I was referencing was not tying the any (distant) "prophetic revelations" of the NT with much older imagery and Sumerian/Bablyonian knowledge.

My point in that previous thread was that assertions that Christ is intended to return in some then distant and perhaps not immediate time are undermined by the Bible itself.

While the "day and hour" were unknown, the relative time period was pretty evident and this was in the 1st Centry AD in the lifetimes of the apostles. If any Biblical prophecy is to heeded as 'accurate' then these words themselves across many books and spoken to many audience cannot be simply ignored:

<blockquote><UL type=square><LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished. (Mt.5:18)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Jesus to His twelve apostles: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes. (Mt.10:23)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"
size=2>
<I>Jesus to His disciples: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square><LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...there are some of those who are standing here <B>who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming</B> in His kingdom. (Mt.16:27,28)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Jesus to His disciples: </I>
</FONT><UL type=square> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (Mt.24:34, See Lk.21:32)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"
size=2>
<I>Jesus to the high priest: /I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...hereafter you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven. (Mt.26:64)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Jesus to His disciples and the crowd: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...there are some of those who are standing here <B>who shall not taste death until they see the kingdom of God</B> after it has come with power. (Mk.9:1)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Jesus to the disciples: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...there are some of those standing here who <B>shall not taste death until they see the kingdom of God</B>. (Lk.9:27)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Jesus to His disciples and the crowd: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square><LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...there are some of those who are standing here <B>who shall not taste death until they see the kingdom of God</B> after it has come with power. (Mk.9:1)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Jesus to His disciples: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...there are some of those who are standing here who <B>shall not taste death until they see the kingdom of God</B>. (Lk.9:27)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Jesus to Nathaniel:
</I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...<B>you shall see</B> the heavens opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man. (Jn.1:51)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Jesus to Peter:
</I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>If I want him (John) <B>to remain until I come</B>, what is that to you? You follow Me! (Jn.21:22,23)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Paul to all who were beloved of God in Rome: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...<B>it is already the hour</B> for you to awaken from sleep; for now <B>salvation is nearer to us than when we believed</B>. The night is almost gone, and <B>the day is at hand</B>. (Ro.13:11,12)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Paul to the church of God at Corinth: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1Cor.1:7,8)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...<B>the time has been shortened</B>. (1Cor.7:29)</FONT> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...the form of this world is passing away. (1Cor.7:31)</FONT> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Now these things ... were written <B>for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages has come</B>. (1Cor.10:11)</FONT> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...<B>we shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed</B>... (1Cor.15:51)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...I hope you will understand until the end...(2Cor.1:3)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Paul , Timothy and bond-servants of Christ, to all the saints who were in Philippi: </I>
</FONT><UL type=square>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ... (Phil.1:10)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...we <B>eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ</B>... (Phil.3:20</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2><B>The Lord is near</B>. (Phil.4:5)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Paul and Silvanus and Timothy to the church of the Thessalonians: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...<B>we are of the day</B>...(1Thes.5:8)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1Thes.5:23)
Faithful is He who calls you and He also will bring it to pass. (1Thes.5:24)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, our gathering together to Him...(2Thes.2:1,2)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Paul to Timothy:
</I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>I charge you ... that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ ... (1Tim.6:13,14)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day.
(2Tim1:12)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...The Lord may grant to him (Onesiphorus) to find mercy from the Lord on that day..(2Tim.1:18)</FONT> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2><B>If we endure, we shall also reign with Him</B>... (2Tim.2:12)
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: (2Tim.4:1)</FONT> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing. (2Tim.4:8)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Paul to Titus:
</I>
</FONT><UL type=square>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. (Titus 2:11-14)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>To the Hebrews: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>God...<B>in these last days</B> has spoken to us in His Son... (Heb.1:1,2)
For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end; (Heb.3:14)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb.8:13)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;...
(Heb.9:24)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...<B>you see the day drawing near</B>. (Heb.10:25)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay.
(Heb.10:37)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>James to the twelve tribes who were dispersed abroad:
</I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. (James 5:7)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...the coming of the Lord is at hand. ...the Judge is standing right at the door. (James 5:7-9)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>..the Judge is standing right at the door. (James 5:9)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>Peter to those who resided as aliens: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...according to His great mercy has caused <B>us...who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time</B>.
(1Pet.1:3,5)
...<B>you...may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.</B> (1Pet.1:6,7)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. (1Pet.1:13)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>He...has appeared in these last times for the sake of you... (1Pet.1:20)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may on account of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation. (1Pet.2:12)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...but they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
(1Pet.4:5)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2><B>The end of all things is at hand</B>...(1Pet.4:7)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2><B>For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God</B>... (1Pet.4:17)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Therefore I ... a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, (1Pet.5:1)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.
(1Pet.5:4)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>


<I>Peter to those who had received the faith: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square><LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells. (2Pet.3:13)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,... (2Pet.3:14)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>John to those who believed in the name of the Son of God:</I>
</FONT><UL type=square>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining. (1Jn.2:8)
And the world is passing away... (1Jn.2:17)
Children, <B>it is the last hour...from this we know that it is the last hour</B>. (1Jn.2:18)
We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is. (1Jn.3:2)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...we may have confidence in the day of judgment...(1Jn.4:17)</FONT></LI></UL><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<I>The revelation of Jesus Christ communicated through John to His bond-servants: </I>
</FONT>
<UL type=square>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, <B>the things which must shortly take place</B>... (Rv.1:1)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...<B>for the time is near</B>. (Rv.1:3)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>... He is coming with the clouds, <B>and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him</B>...(Rv.1:7)</FONT> <LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2><B>I am coming quickly</B>...(Rv.3:11)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, <B>that hour which is about to come upon the whole world</B>, to test those who dwell upon the earth. (Rv.3:10</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...<B>things which must shortly take place</B>. (Rv.22:6)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...<B>I am coming quickly</B>. (Rv.22:7)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>...<U><B>Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near</B></U>.
(Rv.22:10)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2><B>Behold, I am coming quickly</B>...(Rv.22:12)</FONT>
<LI><FONT face="ARIAL,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2><B>Yes, I am coming quickly</B>. (Rv.22:20)</FONT></LI></UL></blockquote>

Certainly some of these citations are more telling than others, however cumulatively there is no denying the overall intent. The "second coming" if it occured at all, happened in the 1st Century AD or even perhaps in the 2nd Century AD, but was not prophesized for a distant future, nor the times we now live.


(Edited by Tripp at 3:34 pm on Aug. 18, 2005)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:01 pm 
Okay, Tripp.

Not to dispute your hypothesis, I have but one question: for almost 2,000 years, people have been looking forward to a return. How do we regard revelation in this vein if it is true that the "return" has already occurred?

Most mainstream Christianity claims that the Kingdom of God came to Earth during Christ's ministry, and the "doors of the Kingdom" were kicked wide open with His death and resurrection. Then, too, there is a dichotomy of thought: it came and is here vice it is coming with the "return." I "argue" with fellow theologians that you can't have it both ways.

If there is a second coming (viewed as the final judgment), then it will not be to open the doors but to shut them fast.

So, again, the revelation has been fulfilled with the return of God through Christ, which I believe is the underlying crux of your argument. Like McArthur to the Philippines, he returned to kick the Japanese out, but the end of that story has yet to pass. (now that I think about it, this is probably a poor analogy because I can't move to my next supporting point very smoothly)

The enemy has been defeated but not eradicated. Further revelation or a reinterpretation of revelation provides hope for a definite ending. "Let my people go!" "I wanna go home!" "How long, O Lord!" are definite cries for release and a longing for a final end in victory.

Back to my question: How do we regard revelation in this vein if it is true that the "return" has already occurred?


  
 
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:09 pm 
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It looks to me that Jesus at least symbolizes a form of Anunnaki rule.

Ancient text indicate that the Anunnaki ruled by Zodiac Great Age, as I'm sure most here know about the great ages just in case some don't I'll give a short discription. A Great Age is determined by what Zodiac sign the Sun rises into, it takes an average of around 2166 years to go through one sign or Age their are 12 signs equalling to around 26,000 years. We are currently in the age of Pisces.

The moving from one sign to another happens because of the procession of the Earth, tilted on it's axis the poles make a giant circle in space very gradually 1% every 72 years completing that circle every 26,000 years.

There is a debate as to exactlly when the Age of Pisces ends and Aquarius begins but I believe we have a clock from the ancients the Olmec/Mayan Long Count.

Again just for those who are new and haven't heard of the Mesoamerican Long Count. Basically their is a calander in Mexico called the "Long Count" this calender didn't just keep track of days, months and years in a short cycle like modern calenders based on the Sun and Moon, it was also counting each day as it came and went. This calender was started by the African-Olmecs and has been counted back to 3114 bc, the Long Count Calendar is based on a 360 day year called a tun. Twenty tuns make a katun (7200 days) and twenty katuns make a baktun (144,000 days). Thirteen baktuns make a Great Cycle or a Sun (1872000 days), their are 5 Suns with the current 5th sun being the last they have written down.

The Olmec/Mayan Long Count may be the answer with their Long Count equaling close to the length of procession thus equaling time length of the Zodiac Great Ages of 26,000 years.

The reason for Marduk/Ra trying to take over the spaceport in the Sinai Peninsula which was bombed was because other 'naki didn't want to reconize Marduk/Ra 's time to rule. Eventually a bomb was dropped on the spaceport, a fallout cloud chocked Sumer's population and livestock to death sparing Babylon just north and was looked at as an omen by the 'naki since Babylon was Marduk/Ra 's city they finally reconized his rule.

Aries is astrologically associated with Mars, Mars was identified with Marduk/Ra. Cairo in the ancient language means Mars.

The Hebrews were held captive in Babylon, once the Anunnaki along with Marduk/Ra left the hebrews were let go. They started writting down the Torah at the beginning of the age of Pisces (around 200 bc).

Pisces is astrologically associated with Neptune which in turn is identified with Enki.

So you have Marduk/Ra ruling Aries at the end of Aries the 'naki start leaving, the Hebrews are let go, battles with Nefilim/Giants (left behind Anunnaki?) start poping up Og and Goliath which David defeats and becomes "famous".

Time enters into Pisces, Torah written down for the first time. And the biggest event in the age of Pisces which is of Jesus Christ also associated with the fish (Sign of Pisces) becomes the symbol of love and righteousness .

It looks like Enki (the closest to humans of the 'naki) has given us the age of Pisces not under a rule of an Anunnaki individual but under an example of how to live.

The Olmec/Mayan Long Count ends in 2012 the end of the age of Picses and the beginning of the age of Aquarius which is astrologically associated with Uranus identified with ANU, but will Anu just leave it to Enki and Enlil to fight over it again?

Sounds like an Armageddon to me.

Bless.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:22 pm 
I agree with everything you wrote except the first sentence, and let me share with you my thoughts.

The gods ruled as taskmasters. Christ was not a taskmaster, and this is why I think he was and is an anathma to the gods. Just like Moses "freed" the Hebrews in Egypt, Christ freed all humanity. He did not come to impose a new rule or a select people like Jahweh did with the Jews.

------

On the subject of Armageddon, here's what I've posted on other forums:

I'm currently writing a future book about this based on a loose interpretation of John's book of Revelation.

Inanna is traveling towards the Earth, if not already in the vicinity, via an asteroid converted into a space vehicle. Thoth is on the Earth covertly battling Marduk. Marduk is actively recruiting humans and training them through wars and technological breakthroughs for the upcoming battle.

The armageddon will occur because, as you eloquently stated, the zodiacal procession will change, and the gods want to restore the old order.

Christians and Moslems will herald the appearance of Inanna in her glider as the Return. Boy, will they be surprised! Marduk will wage war in space and on the Earth. Thoth and Inanna will join forces to overwhelm and ultimately defeat Marduk. What happens after that is up for grabs at this point.

But what happens to we humans who are merely cannonfodder? Good-bye, baby! We are history. We will be replaced by a new and improved model that will be intellectually smarter but a whole lot more docile and compliant to serve the gods.


  
 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:28 am 

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Tripp said:
"Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but the previous thread I was referencing was not tying the any (distant) "prophetic revelations" of the NT with much older imagery and Sumerian/Bablyonian knowledge.

My point in that previous thread was that assertions that Christ is intended to return in some then distant and perhaps not immediate time are undermined by the Bible itself.

While the "day and hour" were unknown, the relative time period was pretty evident and this was in the 1st Centry AD in the lifetimes of the apostles. If any Biblical prophecy is to heeded as 'accurate' then these words themselves across many books and spoken to many audience cannot be simply ignored: "

i believe that many of these "prophets", even Christ himself, used the sacred and esoteric knowlledge of the ancients to devise their prophetic and "revelatory" imagery and communicate it unto the people.
maybe Christ, and later his apostoles were certain that their godly lord would free the israelites (again) from the Roman empire, hence he preached, like you very well pointed out, that the "salvation" would happen in due course of their life times.

we know that it didnt happen. we know that a schism was formed. the israelites are still waiting for the return of the "messiah" and the Christians believe that the "messiah" has came and will return. either way, the "salvation" work is not done and the same very old (pre judeo-christianism) esoteric symbolic motives and meanings are employed by both of these religions to announce the upcoming return of "god".


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:31 pm 
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Quote:
Quote: from Wallis on 7:22 pm on Aug. 19, 2005
I agree with everything you wrote except the first sentence, and let me share with you my thoughts.

The gods ruled as taskmasters. Christ was not a taskmaster, and this is why I think he was and is an anathma to the gods. Just like Moses "freed" the Hebrews in Egypt, Christ freed all humanity. He did not come to impose a new rule or a select people like Jahweh did with the Jews.


If you agree with Enki being the ruler of Pisces son of Anu brother of Enlil, one of the 12 then the parellels are there for Enki to have been involved.

And if that's the case then writings in the NT make more sense with the mentioning of "Ages";

(talking of the characters of the Old Testament):

Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 1 Corin 10:11

For the Anunnaki time keeping on Earth was the Great Ages.

The deciples didn't ask Jesus about the end of the "world" Greek: "kosmos" or "oikoumene" but for the end of the "aion" (age).

According to ancient text Enki always wanted mercy for humans but at the end of the day Enki was just 1 of the 12 and this age was our chance to show the Anunnaki something to keep them from laying Kingship on Earth again.

Bless.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:48 am 

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Just my 2 cents, but I am not sure I agree that these Anunnaki would use the passage of celestial constellations to mark the 'changing of the guard" and whose rule it would be. I think these have more been associations made after the fact. I really cannot imagine them being all that methodical, especially given that their controls were not involved in a "new world" (here) and this might tend to make it an "all bets are off" scenario where new kings and kingdoms, and yes, Gods might be made.

I agree that these ages are periods of time. I do however think that "the world" was the world at that time, as defined by the Roman empire and not the entire globe itself.

Quote:
Quote: from outcast on 1:28 am on Aug. 24, 2005

we know that it didnt happen. we know that a schism was formed. the israelites are still waiting for the return of the "messiah" and the Christians believe that the "messiah" has came and will return. either way, the "salvation" work is not done and the same very old (pre judeo-christianism) esoteric symbolic motives and meanings are employed by both of these religions to announce the upcoming return of "god".


How do we know this didn't happen?

How do we know the "second coming" did not occur? Might not this age, this "churche age" and the fall of the Roman empire, represent a new age?

Here are some texts that might make one think:

First, perhaps an alternate history of what occured, A large portion of this passage, below has been extracted . What is extracted is a discussion of the fact that the actual authors of the BIblical books are unknown and uncertain and that as the lifespans of the apostles began to come to a close, these proto-Christians began to feel the need to write down their words and extend the beliefs into more distant prophecy:

<div style="background:F2E8CC; color:black; border-left:F2E8CC 5 solid; border-right:F2E8CC 5 solid"><blockquote><hr>The first generation of Christians didn't see any need for a permanent written record of the sayings and stories of Jesus. Jesus' return and the restoration of the Kingdom of God on earth were imminent--why bother preserving stories if the world was about to end? Stories were simply passed along orally, primarily as a means of preaching and convincing outsiders. But as the first generation began to die off and hopes for the Second Coming dimmed, there was a need to preserve Jesus' words and deeds for posterity.

What evidence do we have that the Second Coming was expected in their lifetime.. in that first generation following Jesus' life? Evidently it was clearly indicated that Jesus would return for the Second Coming when those who were gathered there would be yet still alive. This is indicated in Mathew, Mark and Luke as well:
Mat. 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Lk. 9:27 "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God."
Did not the angels on the mountain mean that those who had just watched Christ's ascension would live to witness his Second Coming? Evidently even the apostles believed that Christ's Second Coming would be within their lifetimes.

Quite a few collections of stories about Jesus circulated in the early church, among them The Gospel of Thomas, The Gospel of Mary, and the Secret Book of John. Some of these gave very different and in some cases conflicting accounts of the gospel and, most importantly, of Jesus' alleged resurrection. Some argued for the physical resurrection, with the mantle of leadership falling on those who had experienced it firsthand: the apostles. Others said the resurrection was a spiritual event that anyone could experience. Some thought this latter "heresy" would have led the church away from an organized entity into a situation where anyone could judge the truth for themselves. As Elaine Pagels points out in The Gnostic Gospel, this was no trivial matter. The decision on which interpretation was "correct" was central to the future of the church.

Iraneus, the bishop of Lyons in 180 AD, decided that the validity of any work had to be judged by whether it was "apostolic." That is, it should have been written by or for one of the twelve apostles. But, as Pagels goes on to say, regardless of whether the names given to the Gospels are those of the actual authors or merely reflect a claim to apostolic authority, "we know virtually nothing about the persons who wrote the Gospels."

Recent scholarship or, more correctly, recent rethinking of previous scholarship has brought an intriguing possibility to the table. Matthew, Mark and Luke are termed the Synoptic Gospels, so called because they generally agree on the details and timeline of Jesus' life, sometimes even using the same words to describe the same events. Because of this similarity, quite a few scholars posit that there was a previous collection of Jesus' sayings and works which all three gospel writers relied on when compiling their histories. This collection, as yet just a theoretical construct, has been given the name "Q" (short for Quelle, German for "source").

It's a tempting idea. Mark is regarded as the earliest gospel and hence closest to Q. Of the 661 verses in Mark, only 24 aren't quoted in either Matthew or Luke. Matthew and Luke occasionally disagree with Mark regarding Jesus' words or the order of events, but they never both disagree on the same point.

Burton Mack in The Lost Gospel: The Book of Q and Christian Origins offers another conjecture. It's possible Q was the work not of a single person, but rather of a community trying to give written form and substance to what it believed. If that's the case, the question of authorship in the usual sense evaporates. But rather than have this discussion come to an abrupt end, we'll work on the assumption that the authors were individuals, not a committee.

(EXTRACTED - Discussion of dubious authorship and even identity of books in the BIble.)

What is the import of all of this? It is evident that John is not the earliest written of all the Gospels. Furthermore, while Matthew, Mark and Luke address specific regional audiences, namely the Romans and Jews, the book of John addresses a global audience. Indeed, John is adressing a more global subject, this being the deification of Jesus.

The New Testament began to be written down as the generation following Christ began to die and it was evident that he was not to return in their lifetimes, as expected and indicated in Matthew, Mark and Luke. Furthermore the latter writings of the apostles are recorded at a time when Christanity, the worship of Christ and the religion was growing and there was a need to elevate the religion above other religions. Christ was the obvious focus of the elevation of Christianity above other Religions. It is of no surprise that Christ was elevated to beyond Son of God to God himself, which also thereby bypassed the "one God" edict. Christ was no longer just a prophet, as believed by the Jews, nor just a son of God, but was one with God himself. This issue became of further importance to the times of Constantine and the Councel of Nicea

<hr></blockqote> </div>
The overall point here is that much of what we 'know' tiday via the Christian religion may well have been tailored to fit that religion, including the 'deification of Jesus" and the Truth might be something far different.

What if the tribulation and destruction of the jews actually occured? What if the turmoils even written about in Revelation actually occured already? Here is something I wrote elsewhere, pulling together various ideas from the perspective that the 'prophesies' have already long since occured (preterist view):


<div style="background:F2E8CC; color:black; border-left:F2E8CC 5 solid; border-right:F2E8CC 5 solid"><blockquote><hr>
As far as the "abomination of desolation" which stood in the Temple, your declaration that such did not occur is inaccurate and just being deliberately blind to history, but this is no surprise as your desire for selfish reward motivates your prejudicial reading of the Bible.

The fact is that such an "abomination of desolation" refers to the grown apostacy of the Jewish religion.

This growing apostacy is seen in the Messiah, Jesus, being excommunicated by the Jewish elders. It might even be recognized that Jesus's own death on the cross, an ultimate sacrifice, put a stop to the sacrifice and grain offerings in the Temple. However much more did occur.

Jewish texts clarify "abomination of desolation": In Dan.9:31 Gabriel tells Daniel that "forces will arise from him and desecrate the sanctuary fortress, do away with the regular sacrifice there, and they will set up the abomination of desolation": Here we see that the phrase "abomination of desolation" is referring to the disruption of Judaic ritual and strict adherence to practice which is confirmed by 1 Maccabees 1:41-61.

Historically it was both the Idumeans, or Edomites, and the Romans who managed to sack the Temple. First the Edomites entered the Temple as a result of the Idumean-Zealot conspiracy and defiled it with the blood of sacrificed humans. Then the Romans later sacked the temple. Also it is a matter of considerable note that Temple blood sacrifice entirely ceased when Christ died upon the cross. Reference

Jesus warned that when they saw the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, then they should flee and when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies they should know the desolation of its destruction was near.

<font size=+1 color="#800000"><b>These things All happened during the Jewish Wars which lasted from A.D.66 through A.D.73. </b></font>


At the destruction of the Alexandrian Library in A.D.391 tremendous volumes of history were destoryed only to be supplanted by a much less "local" history. The official history written by historians in the first century was only that which was approved by Caesar. The history written of the decades of the 70's and 80's is missing.

The historian <b>Flavius Josephus</b>( A.D. 37-95) made record of the <b>Jewish Wars</b> (written A.D. 75) and himself recorded the very things that Jesus described: <blockquote>
Antiquities - XX, VIII, 5 Prophetic Significance of Jewish War.

Antiquities - XX, VIII, 6 False Prophets Decieving in the Days Leading Up to the War.

Preface, 1 - Preface to 'The Wars of the Jews' Introduction To Extremities - the "greatest of all wars ever heard of."

Preface, 4, 11 - Responsibility of Jews for Desolation Relevance to Daniel 9:26

II, XVII, 1 - How the War with the Romans Began Seditious Temper of the Leading Jews

II, XVIII, 2 - Calamities and Slaughters Upon Jews.Famine, Pestilence & Slavery - Historical Account Of The Magnitude Of The Wickedness

II, XIX, 6,7 - How Cestius Retreated From the City - Significance: Allowed Fulfillment of Matthew 24:16

III, X, 9 - Description of Country of Gennesareth -The Lakes and Rivers Full of Blood, according to Prophecy
</blockquote>
Truly within the scope of events of the Jewish Wars one can find the details outlined in Biblical prophecy and the tribulation period of great distress anticipated therein.

Are there other consistancies of the time with prophecy?

From <b>Matthew 24:9</b> -
<blockquote>29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: </blockquote>
Mount Vesuvius is a volcano located east of Naples, Italy and is the only active volcano on the European mainland. Vesuvius is notorious for its incomparable <b>destruction of the Roman city of Pompeii in AD 79</b>; Even today<IMG SRC="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/180px-Pompeii_the_last_day_1.jpg" ALT="?" BORDER=0 align=right> this eruption is tallyed as one of the most destructive and Vesuvius remains one of the most dangerous volcanoes in the world.

Such a cloud of soot and ash ejected into the upper atmosphere would indeed serve "darken the sun" and obscure the moon and obliterate the stars from the skies as written in Matthew 24:9.

<hr></blockqote> </div>

(Edited by Tripp at 10:04 pm on Aug. 24, 2005)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:35 am 

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Quote:
Quote: from Tripp on 9:48 pm on Aug. 24, 2005

How do we know this didn't happen?

How do we know the "second coming" did not occur? Might not this age, this "churche age" and the fall of the Roman empire, represent a new age?


when you put things in that context and to answer your question i must say that i do not know whether it has happened or not. the references you provided, in my opinion, are just an open window for a different interpretation. however, do you not agree that in the light of Judaic religion, the coming of the Messiah has not come to a term?

if Christinity was indeed an announced and accepted new age (the Age of Piscis) under the influence of one particular deity, maybe that means that the Israelites are indeed waiting for an entire different Messianic event or an entire different godly figure than the one accepted by christianity.

<IMG SRC="http://flash3d.no.sapo.pt/sumeria/Enki_dagon.jpg">
<IMG SRC="http://flash3d.no.sapo.pt/sumeria/pope.jpg">


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...and again...
i seem to have forgotten that the volume of the moon and the volume of the pacific ocean are the same...hmmmmm
http://www.moonphases.info/

(i'll be inserting this interesting tidbit in the threads where the moon shows up. so feel free to inore it if you see it again. or don't.)


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 Post subject: Re: A Question Of Revelation - Is
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:35 am 

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The Bible, the Elohim and the Urantia Book.
Christ is not a problem with the Elohim coming here to make man, Christ is the reason for it. The Elohim are "Sons of the Most High", YHWH say, and the Most High gave it to them to come to Earth and gave to the ELoHIM for to make man so that the Redeemer could come down and save the Sinners out of the House of Sin. The EL o HIM, of course were making man to replace the Anunnaki in the mines as Zecharia has taught US in the Earth Chronicles.
Sin had no place for US on NiBiRU and Christ has had an enormous, unimaginable number of abodes waiting for US in Paradise (see the Urantia Book) since before the Beegining of Time. It actually fits together like a hand and glove. The glove was made to fit the Hand and the Elohim were made to fit the purpose of the Most High, Our God of Salvation for Man and the Earth, Our God of Bread and Wine and Tithing to whom Abraham raised his hand and pledged allegience to, and received the Christ, the Bread and Wine, from, for the Line of Abraham. This was after Abraham received the Blessings from the Allmighty EL Shaddai, the God of the Mountain of the Hebrew God, "God Allmighty" EL Shaddai of Beth EL of Father EL and EL the Son. After He received for US the Blessings and the Promises Abraham was taken to Melchizedek of the God Most High to get US our Salvation. The Allmighty took Abraham out of the Land of Sin, across the river Jordan and into the Promised Land, where the soul of man never dies. Abraham got for US both the Allmighty, the God of "Blessings", "Milk and Honey" as well as the God Most High, Possessor of Heaven and Earth, the God of Our Salvation, Our God of Bread and Wine and Tithing of the US Christians in the church. Amen.


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