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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:05 am 
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Have fun, see you when you get back :)

Eyajwhynsos


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:05 pm 
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isn't THAT funny! i didn't realize that your (Mr. PP's) "Spoken like a true reverend" comment was delivered with the back of your hand! now, i did hear a slur when i read it...but i thought that was your tongue in your cheek. this rev'rend does NOT suggest that you buy into any particular truth, but i understand why we'd all get lumped together. i don't have any ready made truths to offer...and while i'd suggest using some criteria for picking what you believe, i leave it to you to decide on the particulars.

now, eyaj: don't worry about it. i'm pretty vague about some things so it's probably not your problem reading me. i try to post informational links that may be helpful and some thoughts now and then. i try to answer direct questions, but i am quite the subjectivist (which is probably why PP, as an empiricist - i'm guessing-, found my 12/6 post unpalatable. i LOVE empiricits, though! seriously scienctific method rocks and offers excellent criteria for choosing what to believe)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:12 am 
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MrPP comments:
object/sound/smell/etc. exists ---> aware organism senses or perceives target ---> organism uses intelligence to study target ---> organism stores in memory the knowledge and emotional experience gained in the encounter ---> organism in state of awareness perceives a later, similar encounter and uses intelligence to process previous knowledge and experience to assess the immediate situation and act/react appropriately.

That is good to know but in what refernce or point does this deal with?

MrPP comments:
As for EARTH lifeforms/organisms, I think you're putting too much emphasis upon "awareness". Either an organism has awareness or it's a vegetable or in a vegetative state with no sensory capabilities.

First off the subtle yet very sarcastic reference that one is in a vegetative state meaning that plants are unaware is completely unfounded. A plant doesn't need to take in information and study or store it to respond it is aware of water, heat, sound, light, this is awareness and if you reread or look up what awareness is it is coming to know something, or in the act of knowing. What of this is trivial or hard to mentally digest? Point blank you gain info with out making an effort, intelligence or the very essence of it is USING EFFORT TO GAIN INFO. All organism have awareness, but at different degrees are they all aware of self, that is hard to say, but all living organism have awareness.

Next...

MrPP comments:
NO Earthorganism is CONTINUOUSLY "aware", except when "staring" at a chosen target.

Ok, and you are stating an obvious because? I am aware of this as anyone else, that is the point, every life form on this planet is reactive via my own definition, so in saying this one would logically that is one who is more intelligent based, would ask, why then do we live in what appears to be a proactive society etc, etc. This is the dilema that I am striving to present, that how can any life form any where not just here on earth ever choose any other life style then what they are? In order for any life form to go as far as space travel, they need more then intelligence, because no reason in the world would or could propel any being much like us to simply go explore. It goes against everything we observe in nature, that all life acts and live a conservative life style regardless of the environment around it and is rarely if ever beyond their environment when it comes to their biological tools, limbs, brain, senses, etc. We on this board all have that same rough agreement of why we are an anomally, yet when posing this question to the supposed gods it is quickly and decisively(and unanimously...almost) agreed that these gods were just more intelligent and technical simply cause they existed longer. Yet no ethnic group around the world shows any change what so ever toward any thing greater or more complexed with in the last recordable six thousand years of history.

What more time needed, hmm, how about what is driving them to change their life style? Natural for us to just eventually maybe millions or billion years we will be like the anunnaki, maybe sooner, but what is the trigger, if we are here because of the naki, then how did they come to be like they are? Naturally, unatural, and if so one has to explain either or, please since my speculations are so far off, or just not close enough which ever you prefer or alternative, then how MrPP did the anunnaki, or say humans would reach the level we are at now if we hadn't been made this way. But first lets make sure you cover the basics, metal, you can't do much with out it, so you have to discover it, and then you have to figure what potential it may or may not have, so being that you are naturally conservative how does one go about this.

Next...

MrPP comments:
ALL organisms sleep and are in a state of relative UNawareness.

Your dichotomy of "continuous versus intermittent awareness" is thereby moot as far as humans go.

A clarification is needed on the later of this statement but you seem to either be misreading what I wrote, overlooked it or simply enjoy repeated what I already stated. But from what you are saying I never said humans were or could be in a state of continuous awareness and that because they sleep and wake up that their or our awareness is intermittent. In fact the only way to increase our awareness is to focus.

Next....

Mr.PP comments:
Your speculation that the aliens MIGHT have been in a continuous state of awareness is unlikely unless they were robots or androids.

What is this hesitants to give credit were credit is due (and no I am not speaking of me, I try not to be egotistical). We say they are technologically more advanced and more intelligent, so what does that mean, cars that can fly rather then roll, planes that can traverse the distance of stars rather just around the planet, telephones that can send instant messages, wait we have that...To say that they perceive the world in a completely different way then we do, primarily, is to most if not all alternative authors a big fat NO NO. Because then then it makes them more then just super intelligent humans, it makes them more then just super technological humans, it makes them closer to what we and mostly alternative scientist have built our entire reputation on, disproving the gods were GOD or becoming anything like or close to! Maybe it is we who screw up what the meaning of gods were, maybe gods was the name they gave them self when they crossed the line from being reactive conservative living ogranisms to proactive outgoing beings.

MrPP have you ever read any of Laurence Gardiners work, or read anything on David Hudson and the man he was giving Irridium to in small doses over a period of 45 days? The man first began to hear what most people whom meditate seek for a rining sound but it wasn't annoying or pain ful. He then after six months I believe began to have body orgasms, not sexual, but a similar feeling all over his body which became more and more numerous, and when he reached near the time that was up for the process to complete he rarely needed more then an hour of sleep, and most likely after the process would be complete not need any.

Now I am aware that you don't agree with my theory on how the body can produce excess heat, it is ok, it is speculation, but if the body is producing more heat then it can give off, then that indiviual can't loose consciousness, because to loose consciousness means that a body begans to cool off.

MrPP comments:
They simply had more knowledge, more useable technology, and more intelligence than they designed into the human slave that they created.

...I mean how convient of us to label them just like us, forget about any mention in ancient texts that these individuals were called the shinning ones, or that some were so brilliant they could not be looked at. Lets through these out, and while we are at it the notion that their meals they ate were tremendous, or that when Enlil was sleeping with all their advanced technology and intelligence Enlil was too stupid to install sound proof walls?

MrPP comments:
Awareness and perception capabilities were likely very comparable, as we're all 50% alien. If that bothers you, then you need to get over it, rather than create false dichotomies based upon degrees or time patterns of "awareness". IMUO.

Ok, now we are going from what this board and everyone and thing being disscussed is-SPECUALTION to me creating false dichotomies based upon degrees or time patterns? First do you see where you personally are heading MrPP, as far as we have been speaking you have been citing Sitchin and or the supposed fact that all that about the ancient astrnauts are actually a proven fact, common knowledge. Becareful is my advice on that note.

Secondly, I am actually giving reason and example and presenting them with my specualtions about them being immortal, about what awareness is in my opinion and what intelligence is in my opinion (which is the same in any dictionary) any and everything I present I attempt to give reason. Rather then actually address these reasons you simiply say "is unlikely", then go on to say if, " If that bothers you, then you need to get over it".

...you sound like a mainstream scientist who is critiquing an alternative scientist work but doesn't actually address what he is saying and has already concluded that he is wrong. If ever there was a need to state the purpose of this particular board it is now, it is a board of SPECULATION, to discuss diferent theories and view point relating and up to the theory of Zecharia Sitchin and like works. To simply say that it is unlikely or that one needs to get over something with out making any attempt to actually address what has been said (in your words)this board "is thereby moot"!

Now once already you have said that my specualtion prior does not conform to Sitchin and or your beliefs and have refused to continue along such lines of disscusion, but then why come to a board such as this only to reiterate what we all basically already believe, why have a board at all.

To the MODERATOR, I know you usually don't intervene, or basically comment on such topics, and to the AUDIENCE and anyone else for that matter, if not presenting and exchanging or debating different view points via addressing those specualtion then why does anyone come here, why is this board even open Moderator?

Eyajwhynsos


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:13 am 
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MrPP comments:
object/sound/smell/etc. exists ---> aware organism senses or perceives target ---> organism uses intelligence to study target ---> organism stores in memory the knowledge and emotional experience gained in the encounter ---> organism in state of awareness perceives a later, similar encounter and uses intelligence to process previous knowledge and experience to assess the immediate situation and act/react appropriately.

That is good to know but in what refernce or point does this deal with?

MrPP comments:
As for EARTH lifeforms/organisms, I think you're putting too much emphasis upon "awareness". Either an organism has awareness or it's a vegetable or in a vegetative state with no sensory capabilities.

First off the subtle yet very sarcastic reference that one is in a vegetative state meaning that plants are unaware is completely unfounded. A plant doesn't need to take in information and study or store it to respond it is aware of water, heat, sound, light, this is awareness and if you reread or look up what awareness is it is coming to know something, or in the act of knowing. What of this is trivial or hard to mentally digest? Point blank you gain info with out making an effort, intelligence or the very essence of it is USING EFFORT TO GAIN INFO. All organism have awareness, but at different degrees are they all aware of self, that is hard to say, but all living organism have awareness.

Next...

MrPP comments:
NO Earthorganism is CONTINUOUSLY "aware", except when "staring" at a chosen target.

Ok, and you are stating an obvious because? I am aware of this as anyone else, that is the point, every life form on this planet is reactive via my own definition, so in saying this one would logically that is one who is more intelligent based, would ask, why then do we live in what appears to be a proactive society etc, etc. This is the dilema that I am striving to present, that how can any life form any where not just here on earth ever choose any other life style then what they are? In order for any life form to go as far as space travel, they need more then intelligence, because no reason in the world would or could propel any being much like us to simply go explore. It goes against everything we observe in nature, that all life acts and live a conservative life style regardless of the environment around it and is rarely if ever beyond their environment when it comes to their biological tools, limbs, brain, senses, etc. We on this board all have that same rough agreement of why we are an anomally, yet when posing this question to the supposed gods it is quickly and decisively(and unanimously...almost) agreed that these gods were just more intelligent and technical simply cause they existed longer. Yet no ethnic group around the world shows any change what so ever toward any thing greater or more complexed with in the last recordable six thousand years of history.

What more time needed, hmm, how about what is driving them to change their life style? Natural for us to just eventually maybe millions or billion years we will be like the anunnaki, maybe sooner, but what is the trigger, if we are here because of the naki, then how did they come to be like they are? Naturally, unatural, and if so one has to explain either or, please since my speculations are so far off, or just not close enough which ever you prefer or alternative, then how MrPP did the anunnaki, or say humans would reach the level we are at now if we hadn't been made this way. But first lets make sure you cover the basics, metal, you can't do much with out it, so you have to discover it, and then you have to figure what potential it may or may not have, so being that you are naturally conservative how does one go about this.

Next...

MrPP comments:
ALL organisms sleep and are in a state of relative UNawareness.

Your dichotomy of "continuous versus intermittent awareness" is thereby moot as far as humans go.

A clarification is needed on the later of this statement but you seem to either be misreading what I wrote, overlooked it or simply enjoy repeated what I already stated. But from what you are saying I never said humans were or could be in a state of continuous awareness and that because they sleep and wake up that their or our awareness is intermittent. In fact the only way to increase our awareness is to focus.

Next....

Mr.PP comments:
Your speculation that the aliens MIGHT have been in a continuous state of awareness is unlikely unless they were robots or androids.

What is this hesitants to give credit were credit is due (and no I am not speaking of me, I try not to be egotistical). We say they are technologically more advanced and more intelligent, so what does that mean, cars that can fly rather then roll, planes that can traverse the distance of stars rather just around the planet, telephones that can send instant messages, wait we have that...To say that they perceive the world in a completely different way then we do, primarily, is to most if not all alternative authors a big fat NO NO. Because then then it makes them more then just super intelligent humans, it makes them more then just super technological humans, it makes them closer to what we and mostly alternative scientist have built our entire reputation on, disproving the gods were GOD or becoming anything like or close to! Maybe it is we how screw up what the meaning of gods were, maybe gods was the name they gave them self when they crossed the line from being reactive conservative living ogranisms to proactive outgoing beings.

MrPP have you ever read any of Laurence Gardiners work, or read anything on David Hudson and the man he was giving Irridium to in small doses over a period of 45 days? The man first began to hear what most people whom meditate seek for a rining sound but it wasn't annoying or pain ful. He then after six months I believe began to have body orgasms, not sexual, but a similar feeling all over his body which became more and more numerous, and when he reached near the time that was up for the process to complete he rarely needed more then an hour of sleep, and most likely after the process would be complete not need any.

Now I am aware that you don't agree with my theory on how the body can produce excess heat, it is ok, it is speculation, but if the body is producing more heat then it can give off, then that indiviual can't loose consciousness, because to loose consciousness means that a body begans to cool off.

MrPP comments:
They simply had more knowledge, more useable technology, and more intelligence than they designed into the human slave that they created.

...I mean how convient of us to label them just like us, forget about any mention in ancient texts that these individuals were called the shinning ones, or that some were so brilliant they could not be looked at. Lets through these out, and while we are at it the notion that their meals they ate were tremendous, or that when Enlil was sleeping with all their advanced technology and intelligence Enlil was too stupid to install sound proof walls?

MrPP comments:
Awareness and perception capabilities were likely very comparable, as we're all 50% alien. If that bothers you, then you need to get over it, rather than create false dichotomies based upon degrees or time patterns of "awareness". IMUO.

Ok, now we are going from what this board and everyone and thing being disscussed is-SPECUALTION to me creating false dichotomies based upon degrees or time patterns? First do you see where you personally are heading MrPP, as far as we have been speaking you have been citing Sitchin and or the supposed fact that all that about the ancient astrnauts are actually a proven fact, common knowledge. Becareful is my advice on that note.

Secondly, I am actually giving reason and example and presenting them with my specualtions about them being immortal, about what awareness is in my opinion and what intelligence is in my opinion (which is the same in any dictionary) any and everything I present I attempt to give reason. Rather then actually address these reasons you simiply say "is unlikely", then go on to say if, " If that bothers you, then you need to get over it".

...you sound like a mainstream scientist who is critiquing an alternative scientist work but doesn't actually address what he is saying and has already concluded that he is wrong. If ever there was a need to state the purpose of this particular board it is now, it is a board of SPECULATION, to discuss diferent theories and view point relating and up to the theory of Zecharia Sitchin and like works. To simply say that it is unlikely or that one needs to get over something with out making any attempt to actually address what has been said (in your words)this board "is thereby moot"!

Now once already you have said that my specualtion prior does not conform to Sitchin and or your beliefs and have refused to continue along such lines of disscusion, but then why come to a board such as this only to reiterate what we all basically already believe, why have a board at all.

To the MODERATOR, I know you usually don't intervene, or basically comment on such topics, and to the AUDIENCE and anyone else for that matter, if not presenting and exchanging or debating different view points via addressing those specualtion then why does anyone come here, why is this board even open Moderator?

Eyajwhynsos


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:14 pm 
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the human brain does NOT need to be in a state of conscious wakefulness or controlled awareness in order to grow/develop/increase in intellectual capacity
[url=http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/05.28/DreamingLinkedt.html

evidence]http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette....vidence[/url] of sleeping O2 supply affecting development
[url=http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-10/nhla-bpd100604.php

and]http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_rel....p

and[/url] for a tri-fecta
[url=http://www.fi.edu/brain/sleep.htm

]http://www.fi.edu/brain/sleep.htm

[/url]
i am a Special Ed. teacher with a very distractible attention span, so i may just pipe in on a point or two now and again...it's 'cause i have a hard time reading and answering your full posts. *phew* you got alot to say, dudes! (all good stuff. i try to go through entries 2-3 times to glean what i can while maintaining a low stress level)


um...ok. read some more, so i have to say some more! when the brain heats up, it expands...like most matter. the skull, being more dense, doesn't expand at the same rate that the brain does so as the brain expands faster than the skull, pressure within the cranium increases...pressure on the very soft-natured brain...then seizures, then comatose state, then brain damage.

(Edited by ThaRevrendAl at 9:00 am on Dec. 12, 2006)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:33 pm 
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If the human brain did need to be in a conscious state to grow...well then. It was once thought that the brain at night while sleeping helped it to form new synoptic connections, now it is believed that the brain actually does a little bit of spring cleaning ridding itself of what it doesn't use or hardly use. It is believe that this helps the brain thus focus on what is used often and thus allows an individual to continue to learn new things.

Eyajwhynsos


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:09 pm 
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"Anecdotal evidence from composers, writers and scientists suggests that their best ideas seem to come at times when they weren't even thinking about the task at hand; they tend to happen subconsciously. “There's no single executive controlling this — it just happens … (creating) is not something we can usually force,” Andreasen said.

While there appears to be no centralized control of the creative process, Andreasen noted that parts of the cerebral cortex — called association cortex — seem to be crucial.

“I think what's happening — with a small amount of evidence to support it — is that the association cortices in the brain are just running wild,” she said.

In a brain imaging study of creativity, Andreasen found that during rest, the association cortices of the brain were highly active. Recently, she embarked on an MRI study as a follow-up, where she plans to image the activity of the association cortices of highly creative people. Her first subject ¬- filmmaker George Lucas. "
[url=http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/reporter/index.html?ID=5061

]http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/reporter/index.html?ID=5061

[/url]
something interesting further on in that same article: "This suggests, she said, that people who are considered highly creative may be more vulnerable to mental illnesses like schizophrenia, depression and bipolar disorder. "

i like this so much, i had to do it again!
um...ok. read some more, so i have to say some more! when the brain heats up, it expands...like most matter. the skull, being more dense, doesn't expand at the same rate that the brain does so as the brain expands faster than the skull, pressure within the cranium increases...pressure on the very soft-natured brain...then seizures, then comatose state, then brain damage.

(Edited by ThaRevrendAl at 9:10 am on Dec. 12, 2006)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:47 am 
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...any you said you have some what of a hard time following our post ThaRevrendAl.

ThaRevrendAl cites:
"Anecdotal evidence from composers, writers and scientists suggests that their best ideas seem to come at times when they weren't even thinking about the task at hand; they tend to happen subconsciously."

My point exactly, awareness indeed is what is responsible for this and let me paint a clearer picture if ya will.

Let us say JUST FOR EXAMPLE, that our brains work like this, within a closed room about ten by ten by ten with no GRAVITY and about ten thousand small rubber balls, the kind you can get for twenty five cents at the supermarket. When we are born those rubber balls are shot into the run just below the speed of light and with each collision and idea occurs. But being that we are so young and so many ideas are occuring they are meaningless. It isn't till we are better able to comprehend and the collision slow down that we thus can better utilize this.

Intelligence thus works in my opinion like this it gathers information or more of these small rubber balls so that even though their speed has been slowing down since birth because intelligence has gathered more of them, the likely hood of collision is greater and an idea arises.

Awareness works a little different, you see as the balls slow down rather then trying to creating new collision awareness connects the rubber balls with imaginary lines to form an idea, like creating zodiac signs in the heaven. The less one makes in effort to gain more info (rubber balls) the easier it becomes to create new idea via the way of awareness and in this way awareness is simplistic because it essentially self dependant not needing any other elements added (more rubber balls) to create new images, only a new starting and finishing point.

Just my thought...

Eyajwhynsos


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